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Ep 75: LBJ (Part 6)

  • Matt Crumpton
  • Jul 29
  • 18 min read

In the last episode, we covered the claim of Billie Sol Estes that Mac Wallace was Lyndon Johnson’s hitman and that he killed USDA inspector Henry Marshall and President Kennedy.

 

The evidence for Wallace killing Marshall w as a mixed bag: on one hand, Estes said he was there with Marshall when Lyndon Johnson ordered the murder, and he was at the follow up meeting with Mac Wallace after it happened. And a local gas station attendant says a man came in asking where the Marshall farm was on the day of the murder. The description the gas station attendant gave of that man looked similar to Wallace. On the other hand, Wallace has an alibi from his brother and son, who claim that he was with them in California at the time of the Marshall murder.

 

In this episode, we analyze the two strongest arguments that Mac Wallace was involved in the murder of President Kennedy at the behest of the Vice President. We look at the alleged Mac Wallace fingerprint found on the Sixth Floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building and the recently released Billie Sol Estes tape that appears to incriminate Mac Wallace and Lyndon Johnson.

 

Darby and the Fingerprint

 

On the day of President Kennedy’s assassination, the FBI collected fingerprints from the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building. One of the many fingerprints was labeled “indistinct characteristics.” This print is labeled Print 29 in Warren Commission Exhibit 656, which was lifted from a carton sitting at the edge of the entrance to the sixth floor. According to the National Archives, the print belonged to “an unknown person.”[i] This fingerprint was found on a cardboard box, which means that it had to have been created within ten days of the assassination because after that fingerprints disappear from cardboard.[ii]  

 

The first person to take interest in this unknown print was retired Dallas police officer, John Harrison. Harrison had been studying Mac Wallace in-depth and wanted to check the unknown print against Wallace’s fingerprints. In 1996, Harrison was able to get Wallace’s official fingerprints from his arrest on October 22, 1951, the day that Wallace killed John Kinser at the Pitch and Putt in Austin.[iii]

 

Once he had the Wallace fingerprint, Harrison brought it to a certified latent print examiner named Nathan Darby, who had worked for the Austin Police Department. Harrison asked Darby to compare the 1951 Wallace print with the unknown print from the sixth floor of the Schoolbook Depository Building. Significantly, Harrison did not tell Darby anything about the fingerprints. After Darby reviewed the prints, he signed a sworn affidavit that declared that he discovered fourteen matching points in the fingerprints and concluded that the two fingerprints belonged to the left pinky finger of the same person. Darby continued reviewing the prints and claimed that he found a total of thirty four matching points. After Darby’s determination had been given, only then was he told that the prints were related to the JFK Assassination and that one of them belonged to Mac Wallace.[iv]

 

Hoffmeister Says Yes, Then No

 

But, given the high stakes nature of this particular fingerprint identification, John Harrison wanted a second opinion. So, Harrison hired E. Harold Hoffmeister, a print examiner who worked for the Texas Department of Public Safety, to compare the same fingerprints Nathan Darby reviewed. Hoffmeister then signed an affidavit on April 15, 1998 that said QUOTE “It is my opinion that an unknown latent print I compared with the inked fingerprint impression of a subject unknown to me at this time matches the left little fingerprint of this subject.”[v]

 

However, after Hoffmeister found out that the prints were related to the Kennedy Assassination, he recanted his affidavit. Hoffmeister said QUOTE “After Mr. Harrison left, I continued to analyze the two prints and the longer I looked at them the more questioned I became. Some points matched and they didn’t. Then ALL points matched. Then NO points matched. I then realized that both the other [fingerprint examiner] and I were having to make mental decisions due to the fact that we were dealing with unknown generations of COPIES of the latent and NOT THE ORIGINAL.”[vi]

 

Harrison dismissed Hoffmeister’s changed opinion because he thought Hoffmeister changed his mind out of fear – as opposed to a reasoned decision. Harrison then sent Nathan Darby’s findings to the FBI. Eighteen months later, the FBI responded with a telephone call to say that the print match was incorrect. The FBI did not provide any rationale or supporting documentation to Harrison for this finding.[vii]

 

In 2003, according to Nathan Darby’s friend, attorney Dawn Meredith, Darby’s home was burglarized. The security alarm was bypassed. And the only item missing was a file relating to Mac Wallace’s fingerprint that Darby kept under his bed.[viii]

 

Robert Garrett Says No

 

So, we have the original Nathan Darby print match, which Darby always stood behind. Then, we have Hoffmeister confirming what Darby said, only to change his conclusion after he found out that the prints were related to the JFK Assassination.

 

In 2013, eager to get real clarity on the issue of whether the unknown 6th floor schoolbook depository print really belonged to Mac Wallace, author Joan Mellen contacted Robert Garrett, a certified latent print examiner who once supervised crime scenes in Middlesex County, New Jersey. More importantly, at the time he rendered his opinion for Mellen, Garrett was in charge of fingerprint examiner certification programs for the International Association of Identification – the accrediting institution for fingerprint experts throughout the world.[ix] In other words, there is not a higher ranked expert than Garrett – the guy who certifies experts.

 

Without telling him who these prints allegedly belonged to, Mellen provided Garrett with the same documents Darby and Hoffmeister reviewed: the 1951 Austin Police print and Print 29 from Warren Report CE 656.[x]

 

When he opened up the file, Garrett immediately said that he could not work with a photocopy of the Warren Commission Exhibit, as Darby and Hoffmeister had done. He needed a negative or first generation photograph of the latent print to be able to make an accurate determination. Mellen then obtained a clear first generation photo of Print 29 from the National Archives.[xi]  

 

But Garrett said that there was also a problem with Wallace’s Austin Police prints. The prints had a smudge because the roller had not been thoroughly cleaned off after its use with the previous person. Mellen assisted by acquiring a very clear copy of Mac Wallace’s fingerprints from when he enlisted in the Marines in 1939 from the Navy. Garrett confirmed that the 1939 Marine prints did match Wallace’s 1951 smudged Austin Police prints.[xii]

 

Nathan Darby and Harold Hoffmeister relied on the old-school black and white method of fingerprint identification. But, in 2013, when Mellen was working with Garrett, new technology was available that captured the gray scale and provided more detailed information. Using digital fingerprint identification technology, Garrett compared the 1939 Marine prints with the hi-resolution photo of Print 29. The result, according to Garrett, is that the two fingerprints do not match. For good measure, Garrett compared the Sixth Floor prints to all of Wallace’s fingers, not just his left pinky finger. There was still no match. In other words, according to modern technology and a top expert, Mac Wallace’s fingerprint was not found on the 6th floor of the schoolbook depository building.[xiii]

 

Fingerprint Counterpoints

 

This determination from Robert Garrett, who is without a doubt a qualified expert on the matter, was not without controversy in the JFK Assassination community. Critics of Mellen’s work, led by Professor David Denton, argue that we should not throw out the Mac Wallace fingerprint just yet.

 

The first counter point is that Mellen says she received the new prints from the FBI, and that, given that the FBI has not always been forthcoming in the case, we cannot trust the prints.[xiv] However, in Mellen’s book she states that she obtained the prints from either the National Archives or the Navy.[xv] She does not claim to have gotten them from the FBI.

 

The next counter point is that Garrett’s examination of the prints was not a true double blind examination. This is because Joan Mellen was a well known author on JFK Assassination topics at the time, and Garrett could have easily googled her to determine what the examination was likely about. Also, Garrett’s written report specifically mentions the Wallace print and the Warren Commission Exhibit by name.[xvi] (But, it is possible that he only learned that after the examination, but before writing the report.)

 

The third counterpoint, made by JFK researcher Richard Bartholomew, is that Mellen failed to give Garrett high resolution copies of the prints that were actually used by Darby and Hoffmeister.[xvii] I could not find any independent support for this claim, but it is troubling if true.

 

Other Evidence

 

Zooming out to the big picture, we are trying to determine whether Mac Wallace was on the 6th floor as evidenced by a fingerprint that is supposedly linked to Wallace. And, remember, this fingerprint is not the only evidence for Wallace being on the 6th floor. There is also the Warren Commission testimony of Richard Randolph Carr who says that, from his vantage point across the street on the ninth floor of the courthouse stairwell, he saw a man on the 6th floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building who was a QUOTE “heavy set individual, who was wearing a hat, tan sport coat, and horn rimmed glasses.” When Carr came down the stairs and went outside, after the shots were fired, he saw that same man get into a Nash Rambler that was parked on Record Street.[xviii] Carr never recanted this testimony, even though he was pressured to change it by the FBI. He also had 3 attempts on his life in the years after the assassination.[xix]

 

You may also recall that witness, Carolyn Walther, also saw a man in a brown sport coat standing behind the shooter.[xx] And James Worrell, who was standing very close to the building, saw a man in a dark sport coat running out of the back of the building shortly after the shooting.[xxi] Neither Carr, Walther, nor Worrell ever had the chance to identify Wallace at a line up. But, Wallace’s body type and the glasses that he often wore are consistent with Carr’s identification. Then again, that ID could match a lot of other people too.

 

At the time of the assassination, Mac Wallace lived in Anaheim, California working for Ling Electronics. Wallace’s son, Michael, who was then 15 years old, says that Wallace was home for dinner on the night President Kennedy died. Michael recalled feeling distressed that the President had been killed in Texas. He told Joan Mellen that his dad tried to console him about it. He did not recall the exact time his dad returned home that night. But Michael Wallace was certain that his dad was at in Anaheim, California on November 22, 1963.[xxii]

 

The Tape

 

After reviewing all of that information, the weight of the evidence seems to be that the fingerprints do notmatch. Although, the Nathan Darby burglary where the burglars only took the Mac Wallace fingerprint information does sound very shady, if true. We also have an alibi for Wallace from his son that Wallace was in Anaheim at work on the day of the assassination. Of course, it is possible that Wallace’s son was making a self-serving statement to defend his father. But, there are no known facts to support that claim.  

 

Yet, there is another piece of recently unearthed evidence that strongly implicates Mac Wallace in the murders of Henry Marshall and President Kennedy – an incriminating audio tape recording of a conversation between Billie Sol Estes and Cliff Carter, Lyndon Johnson’s right hand man.  

 

Discovery of the Tape

 

On January 23, 2025, the grandson of Billie Sol Estes, Shane Stevens, went on the Alex Jones show and shared a shocking tape recording with the world. The tape is a recorded in-person conversation between Estes and Cliff Carter. Here’s what Stevens had to say about it:

 

My grandad died in 2013 and it was a couple, few years after he passed away. I’m gonna guess maybe 2015, 2016, somewhere in that time frame. And my Uncle Darrel, he was getting dementia. And he said, I’ve got these tapes. And he said that he didn’t want to discard them. That he was supposed to know the right time to release them, but that time never came. So, he passed them on. They ended up coming to me for safekeeping. So, this tape was, to the best of my understanding, recorded in 1971 or 1972. Somewhere in that time frame based on what they’re talking about. And based on Cliff Carter’s timeline of when he passed away. And, it’s as plain as day, these two talking very openly about who was involved, and the assassination of JFK.[xxiii]

 

Without further delay, here is the tape recording that the grandson of Billie Sol Estes brought to light earlier this year:

 

         Estes:       Sure good to see you. How’s life treating you today?

 

Carter:            Well, Sol, it’s been a pretty touch and go situation. Lyndon and I have had quite a few unpleasant words here lately over the deal that he hired Mac Wallace to assassinate the president. It’s been hectic in every way. But we’ve lived through it this far, and I guess we’ll continue to do so. Lyndon should have never issued that order to Mac. But, we’ve had our differences and I’m true blue to Lyndon as I’ve always been and try to carry out every order that he’s ever given me. But this is one that I’ll probably never be able to forget.

 

And the times that we’ve had in Texas. And the embarrassment that Lyndon had gotten from Kennedy. I guess there wasn’t anything else to do but what he did.

 

Estes:             Well, you know Lyndon, could’ve really helped me if he wanted (unintelligible)].

 

Carter:            Well, Lyndon’s the kind of person that doesn’t want to help anyone. He’s all for Lyndon. And that’s pretty much the way its always been.

 

Estes:             Well, they had me backed up on that Henry Marshall killing and they just kinda blackmailed me to keep my mouth shut. And if I hadn’t had a bunch of tapes that I played after he got killed, cuz you know 17 got killed in this situation very mysteriously. And I’ve spent a lot of time. And I’ve lost a lot of money. And it hurt my family a whole lot. And its really got me just disgusted with Lyndon in one way. In one way, I feel real sorry for him. But, I really feel like that in Lyndon’s heart. He felt like he was doing the right thing. He felt like he was the savior to the common man. In his heart he wanted to help people that had not.

 

                        But, I don’t believe that anything in my Church of Christ background would have ever let me sanction all the killing that he has done. What do you think about it, Cliff? Do you really believe it could have been handled in a different way without killing all these people? And got rid of the Kennedys. You think he would’ve won the election against him.

 

Carter:            Well, I don’t really believe so. He tried desperately to do just that and there didn’t seem to be any other way. I know he regrets a lot of things that he has done. Still, it’s been a battle since day one.

 

Estes:             …Well, we’re long-time friends. And, I’m just sorry that I’ve embarrassed all my friends and put all my friends through this. And what I was really afraid of, my brother Bob, who got killed, our plane was down in Bryan the day that Mac Wallace killed Henry Marshall, and I was afraid they was going to tie me to him into the thing. And we couldn’t afford to. In fact, Pam started to write a book, but she really got scared when she got into the thing. It was just too scary a deal, but anyhow, this too will pass…[xxiv]

 

Tape Analysis

 

We just heard most of the taped conversation between Billie Sol Estes and Cliff Carter that was released this year by Estes’s grandson, Shane Stevens. There are a few headlines here. First and foremost, the tape says that Lyndon Johnson hired Mac Wallace to assassinate President Kennedy. But, the tape also states that Billie Sol Estes was at the Bryan, Texas airport, near Henry Marshall’s ranch, on the day that Estes says Mac Wallace killed Henry Marshall. If these statements by Estes and Carter are true, then we know that Wallace did kill Marshall, and he also had some sort of role in killing President Kennedy. There are two relevant levels of analysis here. First, we have to look at the authenticity of the tape itself. Then, we must look at the facts and circumstances surrounding the recording of the tape.

 

Shane Stevens debuted this important audio recording on Infowars, but he has since been on several other podcasts and talk shows to discuss it. When Stevens went on Glenn Beck, he brought the physical audio tapes with him. Here’s a clip of Beck and Stevens discussing the actual tapes.

 

Beck:              I have to tell you, I mean we wanted to see the actual tape to verify that you had tapes from that time, etc. And you pulled them out. And they’ye in a little baggie. Do you happen to have that? You pulled out a little baggie.

 

Stevens:          I do.

 

Beck:              You terrified me with this. He comes to the studio. And, you’ve only been presenting the digital form. So, he comes to the studio with this little baggie. Please take them out of the little baggie and let us help you preserve them. Because this is game changing. I want to play it directly from the cassette.[xxv]

 

Stevens then goes on to play the same recording you just heard earlier directly from a mini tape recorder machine.[xxvi] So, it appears that there really was a tape. The mini-cassette format was invented in 1967.[xxvii] So, we know that the technology did exist at the time of this conversation. However, given how high the stakes are in this case, it would be helpful to submit the tape that Stevens has to an independent expert who can assess the approximate date of the tape based on the precise model of cassette tape that was used.

 

Given that Bille Sol Estes was released from prison on July 12, 1971 and that Cliff Carter died on September 21, 1971, we know that this tape, if it is real, must have been recorded in that window.[xxviii] Shane Stevens, Estes’s grandson, says the tape was given to his Uncle and then passed down to him. The chain of custody appears to be legitimate here. In my view, the tape itself does seem to be authentic, until proven otherwise.[xxix]

 

 I listened to two recorded phone calls between LBJ and Cliff Carter to see if I could compare the Carter voice on the tape with Carter’s proven voice. I wasn’t able to rule it out or confirm that it was the same. But, perhaps others who are better versed in comparative audio analysis could.[xxx]

 

Prior Confirmation of Existence of Tapes

 

Aside from the tape coming from the grandson of Billie Sol Estes, there is another reason to believe it is credible: the existence of this tape has been documented previously on multiple occasions. 

 

You may recall that Doug Caddy was Billie Sol’s lawyer when he tried to get immunity from Ronald Reagan. In Caddy’s 1984 letter, the same one that lists out all the people LBJ allegedly hired Mac Wallace to kill, it says QUOTE “A short time after Mr. Estes was released from prison in 1971, he met with Cliff Carter and they reminisced about what had occurred in the past, including the murders. During their conversation, Carter orally compiled a list of 17 murders which had been committed, some of which Mr. Estes was unfamiliar. A living witness was present at this meeting and should be willing to testify about it. He is Kyle Brown.”[xxxi]

 

In the tape that we have, Estes is the one who mentions 17 people being killed – not Carter. And, on the tape, Estes is not going through who the 17 names are. But, other than that, the content of the tape is very similar to what was said to exist in 1984.

 

In Larry Hancock’s 2006 book, Someone Would’ve Talked, Hancock noted that Estes claimed to hold a tape recording of Cliff Carter’s statements made in 1971, shortly before the deaths of both Cliff Carter and Malcolm Wallace.[xxxii]

 

Kyle Brown was mentioned in Caddy’s letter as a witness to the Carter/Estes meeting when the tape was made. During the 1950s, Brown used to carry large amounts of cash from Estes to Cliff Carter, which was ultimately destined for LBJ.[xxxiii] Estes invited both Kyle Brown and Cliff Carter to the 1971 meeting. Brown told author Harrison Livingstone that he heard Carter say that he regretted assisting Johnson in the murders.[xxxiv] Brown described Carter as “remorseful, very sad, and very much down.”[xxxv] Kyle Brown also told Lyle Sardie about the tapes, saying QUOTE “They prove that Johnson was a cold blooded killer.” Additionally, another person, Tom Bowden, heard the tape and verified that it contained what Billie Sol Estes claimed it did.[xxxvi]

 

So, we have Estes telling Doug Caddy about the tape in 1984, and we also have confirmation of the tape’s existence and content from Kyle Brown and Tom Bowden. For those reasons, I find it likely that this is the same authentic tape that had been in JFK Assassination research lore for decades.

 

Conclusion

 

In this episode, we have determined rather conclusively that the fingerprint taken from the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building does not match Mac Wallace’s fingerprint. We know this because modern fingerprint scanning technology using much higher quality versions of prints demonstrated that the prints don’t match. This work was done by the highest quality expert one can find. Until someone else adds to the research by credibly challenging the findings of Robert Garrett, we can say with certainty that Mac Wallace’s fingerprint was not found on the 6th floor.

 

Of course, the problem with that is that the Billie Sol Estes/Cliff Carter tape, which does appear to be authentic, clearly implicates Mac Wallace in killing both Henry Marshall and President Kennedy.

 

We are left with a few possibilities: 1) Mac Wallace was involved somehow in the assassinations of Henry Marshall and President Kennedy, despite not leaving his fingerprint or, 2) Billie Sol Estes and Cliff Carter, working together, fabricated a story about Mac Wallace on the tape to try and make Lyndon Johnson look bad.

 

Let’s quickly unpack those options. Clearly, there had to be at least two shooters in the Kennedy Assassination, likely more. To the extent, Mac Wallace was involved, he could have perhaps coordinated his own actions. But, the likelihood that he oversaw the plot is very low. So, the question is why would Mac Wallace be involved in a plot, when he could easily be tied back to Johnson if he was caught. Remember, assuming Johnson was responsible for the Sam Smithwick murder (the guy who was killed in prison after contacting Coke Stevenson with information on the fraudulent 1948 election), Johnson had other assets to use for assassinations who were not so easily tied back to him.

 

On the other hand, we do have the guy in the brown coat and horn rimmed glasses on the 6th floor seen by 3 witnesses in Dealey Plaza. Maybe Wallace was on the 6th floor, but just didn’t leave a fingerprint. The challenge with that argument is that Billie Sol Estes has maintained that Wallace recruited Oswald into the plot through Jack Ruby, and that Wallace himself fired a shot from the grassy knoll at President Kennedy.[xxxvii]There is no evidence that Mac Wallace knew Jack Ruby or Oswald.

 

The other scenario is that Estes and Carter are putting on a performance in this 1971 recording and are both saying things that they know are not true. It is understandable why Estes might do that, given that he spent time in prison and Johnson did not help him, despite all the kickbacks Estes paid. But, I cannot think of a reason why Cliff Carter would intentionally record such a monumental lie. Carter was always very close to Johnson and even rose to the role of director of the Democratic National Committee in the mid 1960s. Also, listening to the conversation, it doesn’t seem like an act. It has an authentic feel.

 

In 1964, just after the assassination, Wallace’s credit report shows that he had 3 unpaid accounts. Wallace’s son, Michael, told Joan Mellen that Mac was always short on cash.[xxxviii] When Mac Wallace was divorced in December of 1969, he had almost no assets to his name.[xxxix] After Wallace died from a single car accident in 1971 (just a few months after Cliff Carter’s death, incidentally), his entire estate was a $10,000 life insurance policy for each of his children.[xl] So, if Mac Wallace was LBJ’s go to hitman, his finances certainly did not reflect it.

 

My current assessment on Mac Wallace is that he did know Johnson, and he worked for him. Wallace may have killed Henry Marshall, but that is still an open question for me. As for Wallace’s role in the assassination of President Kennedy, I find the story of Mac Wallace behind the grassy knoll fence to be highly improbable. Still, given the new Estes tape, there is a chance that Wallace had some level of involvement in Dealey Plaza that day.

 

Either way, we know that Bille Sol Estes knew who killed Henry Marshall because that murder was committed to save Estes’ cotton business. So, I also leave the door open that Estes intentionally planted disinformation about Mac Wallace to obscure the identity of whoever actually killed Henry Marshall. In summary, I find the question of whether Mac Wallace was involved in the assassination of President Kennedy to be inconclusive, but leaning towards unlikely.

 

NEXT TIME ON SOLVING JFK: We turn our attention to the relationship between Lyndon Johnson, Texas Oil Barons, and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy.


[i] Joan Mellen, Faustian Bargains: Lyndon Johnson and Mac Wallace in the Robber Baron Culture of Texas, at 252; CE 656 at 304 - https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_656.pdf

[ii] Mellen at 252-253.

[iii] Id. at 253.

[iv] Id. at 255.

[v] Id.

[vi] Id. at 256.

[vii] Id.

[viii] Id.

[ix] Id. at 258.

[x] Id.

[xi] Id.

[xii] Id. at 258-259.

[xiii] Id. at 259-261.

[xvii] Id.

[xx] Commission Exhibit 2086, WCH, vol 24, p22.

[xxi] Id. at vol 16, p 959; vol 2, p 195-96.

[xxii] Mellen at 256-257.

[xxvi] Id.

[xxix] Estes at 112. (According to Estes’s book, there are many more tapes, including many conversations Estes had on the phone with Cliff Carter.)

[xxxii] Larry Hancock, Someone Would’ve Talked, at 405.

[xxxiii] Phillip Nelson, LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination, at 245.

[xxxiv] Harrison Livingstone, Killing the Truth, at 248.

[xxxv] Nelson at 245.

[xxxvi] Nelson at 245.

[xxxviii] Id. at 175.

[xxxix] Mellen at 219.

[xl] Mellen at 221. Carter died of pneumonia. Wallace’s ex-wife thinks he had a diabetic coma and drove off the road because that happened a previous time.

 
 
 

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© 2025 by Matt Crumpton

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