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Now playing Ep 83: Mafia (Part 5)
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Ep83

Mafia (Part 5)

Was New Orleans mob boss Carlos Marcello the man who ordered the hit on President John F. Kennedy?

In this episode, we trace Marcello’s rise from small-time Louisiana gangster to one of the most powerful bosses in America, controlling billion-dollar gambling, racing, and casino operations, and maintaining close ties to figures like Santos Trafficante and Lyndon Johnson. We examine Marcello’s deportation by Robert Kennedy, his alleged revenge plot, and multiple reported confessions tying him to the assassination.

November 5, 202526 min3,401 words, 58 sources
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Thus far in this section on the Mafia, we’ve looked at the history of American organized crime, with the Kennedy brothers playing an adversarial role in that story, beginning with the McClellan Committee. We heard what the Church Committee had to say when it came to Robert Maheu and the CIA-Mafia plots to kill Fidel Castro. Then, we learned that Johnny Roselli was still embedded with the Cuban exiles, even after the Church Committee said he was not.

We’ve given the spotlight to the most prominent bosses who are the most likely to have been involved, if there was any mafia involvement in Kennedy’s assassination. As we learned in the last episode, Santos Trafficante claimed that fifteen Cuban exiles were hired by him to be part of a team to kill Fidel Castro. We’ll cover Cuban exiles in depth soon. But, until then, it’s important to remember that there is not necessarily a clear line between the mafia and the Cuban exiles. Many of the exiles were also mob affiliated.

In this episode, we turn our attention to New Orleans boss, Carlos Marcello. Did Marcello have any ties to Lee Harvey Oswald? And what support is there for the idea that Carlos Marcello was the one who ordered the hit on President Kennedy?

Marcello Bio

Calogero Minacore, also known as Carlos Marcello, was born in French Tunisia and moved with his family to Metairie, Louisiana as a baby. As a teen, he masterminded a group of young thugs that carried out armed robberies in towns surrounding New Orleans.1 Marcello received a 14 year prison sentence for those robberies, but only served 5 years after he was pardoned by the Governor.2 Marcello wasn’t out of the slammer for long before he was charged with trafficking marijuana, and given a long prison sentence, of which he served only 10 months.3

When he got of prison for the second time, Marcello really began to build his empire. That’s when he started to operate a slot machine network with New York boss, Frank Costello. Marcello owned Jefferson Music Company, which dominated the slot machine, pinball and jukebox trade in New Orleans. He also owned the largest racing wire service in New Orleans.4 On top of that, Marcello controlled the two best known casinos in the Big Easy, including the Beverly Country Club, which brought Marcello into partnership with Meyer Lansky.5

By 1963, Carlos Marcello’s New Orleans family was bringing in over $1.1 billion dollars per year.6 And Marcello wasn’t just making money. He was also the most respected boss within La Cosa Nostra, according to FBI agent Patrick Collins, who investigated Marcello. Because New Orleans was the oldest La Cosa Nostra family, Marcello could make decisions on his own without going to the Commission, even though he usually did.7

The boss whom Marcello was closest to was Santos Trafficante. Marcello told the HSCA that his relationship with Trafficante was strictly social, and that he had no ownership in Cuba.8 However, when Marcello spoke to the HSCA, he denied ever receiving money from Las Vegas or doing anything illegal, for that matter.9 So, we can’t necessarily take his HSCA testimony to the bank.

Given his overlapping interests with Trafficante, it would not be surprising if Marcello was profiting from Cuba somehow. Either way, he showed his desire for a Castro-free Cuba by backing Cuban exiles in their fight to oust the bearded dictator. Marcello supported Tony Verona’s Cuban Revolutionary Council, which, in New Orleans, was led by David Ferrie’s friend, Sergio Arcacha Smith, and, for a period of time had its offices at 544 Camp Street, in the same building as Guy Banister.10

Marcello was also a long time supporter of Lyndon Johnson. As previously noted, Jack Halfen claimed to have funneled at least half a million dollars from Marcello’s gambling profits to LBJ in the 1950s.11 In exchange, Johnson always voted against anti-racketeering laws. Halfen was sent to prison in 1964 and was later given a full pardon by Lyndon Johnson in 1966.12

Dutz Murret and the Marcello Family

Many researchers point to links between the uncle of Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Dutz Murret, and the Marcello crime family. So, what is the evidence linking Dutz Murret to Carlos Marcello?13

First, Murret, who married Marguerite Oswald’s sister, Lillian, was, according to the HSCA, QUOTE “associated with organized crime figures [in New Orleans], having worked for years in an underworld gambling syndicate affiliated with the Carlos Marcello crime family.”14 The Warren Commission interviewed Murret, but did not ask him what he did for a living. Both John Pic, Oswald’s half brother, and Lillian Murret, Dutz’s wife, told the Commission that Dutz was in the bookmaking business.15

Later, Lillian Murret told the HSCA that her husband worked in the gambling business with Sam Saia for years. Murret’s children, Marilyn and Gene also confirmed their father’s relationship with Saia. Even Marguerite Oswald said that Dutz Murret worked with Saia, and that they knew each other for years. Thus, there is overwhelming evidence that Murret was a bookie and that he worked with Sam Saia.16 So, who was Sam Saia?

According to the HSCA, Saia QUOTE “was identified by various federal and state authorities as an organized crime leader in New Orleans.” The head of the New Orleans Metropolitan Crime Commission, Aaron Kohn, said Saia QUOTE “had the reputation of being very close to Carlos Marcello.”17 In addition to working regularly with Saia, Murret managed a boxer named Tony Sciambra,  who went on to become a lieutenant under Saia in the Marcello Crime Family.18  

The HSCA Organized Crime Report also relayed a story about how Marguerite Oswald implied that Dutz Murret had close proximity to Marcello when she met an old friend at a dinner party in 1970 in Waco, Texas. An unnamed businessman and his wife were hosting Marguerite Oswald at their home at the time. They took her to a party where Marguerite used a different name. At that party, a man named Sam Termine, who was a former bodyguard and chauffer for Carlos Marcello, walked up to Marguerite and said “I know you.” She then recognized the man and the two spoke about Termine’s friendship with Dutz Murret and his association with Sam Saia. The anonymous businessman later met Carlos Marcello in New Orleans at the introduction of Termine and said it was apparent that Termine and Marcello had a close relationship.19 When the HSCA asked Marguerite Oswald about Termine, she said she may have known him, but refused to provide any other information about him.20

Lee Harvey Oswald and the Murrets

So, it is established with certainty that Dutz Murret worked closely as a bookie with Sam Saia, who reported to Carlos Marcello. We also have the link of the boxer, Tony Sciambra, and, apparently, Marguerite Oswald, all confirming that Dutz Murret was connected with all of these folks and that, even she knew Marcello’s bodyguard and chauffeur, Sam Termine.

The next issue here is whether Lee Harvey Oswald was close enough to Dutz Murret for his relationship with Marcello to matter. Would Oswald have been exposed to any of the trappings of organized crime if he was around Murret?

According to New Orleans Crime Commissioner, Aaron Kohn, the place where Oswald lived from 1955 to 1956, 126 Exchange Place, was a hot spot for the New Orleans mafia. Kohn said QUOTE “Exchange Alley, specifically, that little block that Oswald lived on, was literally the hub of some of the most notorious underworld joints in the city.”21 We don’t know to what extent a sixteen year old Lee Harvey Oswald was aware of his underworld-dominated neighborhood, but its worth noting that his apartment was physically surrounded by Marcello-affiliated businesses as a teen.

Growing up, Oswald regularly spent Friday nights and all day Saturday with the Murrets, and would stay with them when his mom was traveling or was unavailable. Oswald also relied on the Murrets again when he returned to New Orleans in the Spring of 1963. He stayed with them for a few weeks until his Uncle Dutz loaned him the money to move in to an apartment on Magazine Street with Marina and June. In the Summer of 1963, while living in New Orleans, Marina and Lee regularly had dinner with the Murrets.22 And, after Lee was arrested for getting into a fight while handing out Fair Play for Cuba Committee flyers, he was bailed out of jail, by, Emile Bruneau, a friend of Dutz Murret and close associate of Carlos Marcello’s number three man, Nofio Pecora.23 24

Fitz & the Jesuits

It is therefore clear that Lee Harvey Oswald was close to his mom’s sister’s family, including his Uncle Dutz. In the interest of showing just how close Oswald was with the Murrets and tying everything back to the present time, it’s also worth discussing Oswald’s trip to Mobile, Alabama with them in July of 1963.

At that time, Dutz drove Lee, Marina, and other family members to Mobile to visit Dutz and Lillian’s son, and Oswald’s cousin, Gene Murret, who was attending Spring Hill College – a Jesuit school there in Mobile. Lee had been invited to give a talk about life in the Soviet Union to a group of students.

While Lee was giving his speech, Marina had to wait outside because women weren’t allowed to go inside of the Jesuit House of Studies. A Spring Hill student named Robert Fitzpatrick, waited outside of the building with Marina, where he made conversation with her in Russian, a language that he happened to be studying.

Fitzpatrick asked Marina if he could write to her in Russian and she could correct any mistakes that he made.25 And, we know that he did, in fact, send Marina a letter because it was included as Commission Exhibit 76 in the Warren Report.26 Marina never responded to the letter.27 I only bring this up because Robert Fitzpatrick’s son, Michael, went on to become the lead singer of Fitz and the Tantrums – a neo-soul band that recently toured with Solving JFK producer, Jerry DePizzo’s band, O.A.R. Small world.

Marcello & Oswald

From what we just covered, we know that Dutz Murret was associated with Marcello and that Oswald was fairly close with Dutz Murret. So, if Marcello wanted to get a message to communicate with Oswald, he could have done it through Murret. But, is there any evidence that Oswald ever had direct contact with Marcello? 

According to FBI Informant, Jack Van Laningham, whose story we’ll zoom into shortly, while Marcello was incarcerated in the mid 1980s, Marcello said that he had been introduced to Oswald by a man named Ferris, who was Marcello’s pilot. (Van Laningham likely meant Ferrie.) He said that the meeting had taken place in Marcello’s brother’s restaurant and that he met with Oswald several times before he left New Orleans.28

Joe Hauser was an FBI Informant who wore a wire for the feds that captured information leading to Marcello’s eventual incarceration. Hauser claimed that Marcello told him that he and some of his men knew Oswald, saying QUOTE “I used to know his fuckin’ family. His uncle he work for me. Dat kid work for me, too.”29 Aside from this alleged statement, there is no evidence that Oswald actually worked for Marcello.

There is also an allegation from FBI informant, Eugene Sumner, who says he was in New Orleans for business in February or March of 1963, and he had dinner at the Town and Country Restaurant, which was owned by Marcello and operated by his associate, Joseph Poretto. Sumner told the FBI a few days after JFK was killed that he recalled seeing Oswald eating at the restaurant with a blonde haired lady. Sumner saw the restaurant owner, who he had been introduced to earlier that night, QUOTE “join [the] couple at a table” and “remove [a] wad of bills from his pocket which he passed under the table to the man [Sumner identified as Oswald].30

Before the FBI report on Sumner’s statement was public, informant Joe Hauser told the FBI that Marcello mentioned that QUOTE “the feds came up to de motel askin about [Oswald], but my people didn’t tell ‘em nuttin’. Like we never heard of the guy, yknow?”31

Marcello’s Dallas Network

We know that Carlos Marcello was a powerful mob boss in Louisiana, and that Texas was part of his territory. But, did Marcello have any direct control over Dallas? There were two key underbosses with whom Marcello spoke regularly on the telephone for many years before and after the JFK assassination: Joe Civello and Joe Campisi.32

Civello was a narcotics dealer and suspected murderer, and also legitimate businessman, in the liquor business and importation of Italian foods.33 You may remember from Episode 76 that, according to H.L. Hunt’s right hand man, John Curington, Joe Civello met with H.L. Hunt at 6am at the Hunt estate on the morning that Ruby killed Oswald. Civello was a partner in Marcello’s racing wire service and leased Marcello slot machines to bars and nightclubs in Dallas. Civello attended the 1957 Apalachin meeting, along with one of Marcello’s brothers, on Marcello’s behalf.34 File this under the maybe its nothing, maybe it’s a big deal category: Shortly after Civello returned from Apalachin, he was observed having dinner with Dallas Police Sargeant, Patrick Dean, who would go on to be in charge of basement security when Jack Ruby killed Oswald.35

Joe Campisi and his brother Sam owned the Egyptian Lounge restaurant, a notorious mob hangout in Dallas. Civello also frequented the restaurant according to FBI reports. Campisi had a close relationship with Marcello as demonstrated by the frequency of phone calls from the Egyptian Lounge to Marcello’s businesses in New Orleans.36 Campisi told the HSCA investigators he used to play golf with Marcello’s brothers and would send Marcello 260 pounds of Italian sausage every Christmas.37

As we’ll soon see, Joe Civello and Joe Campisi also had a close relationship with Jack Ruby.

RFK Deports Marcello

When Carlos Marcello appeared before the Kefauver Committee in 1951, he refused to answer any questions. Apparently as a result of that hearing, deportation proceedings began against Marcello in 1953.38 By 1959, Marcello was still in the United States when he was subpoenaed to testify before the McClellan Committee and the Kennedy brothers, once again invoking the 5th Amendment for every question.39

At first, Marcello turned to Santos Trafficante to get help from Frank Sinatra to ask the Kennedys to not deport him.40 But, that tactic was unsuccessful. On April 4, 1961, Marcello went to his regularly scheduled check-in meeting with the INS, where he was arrested and immediately flown to Guatemala because that was the country listed on his false birth certificate. The IRS then filed an $835,000 lien against Marcello and his wife.41

When Marcello arrived in Guatemala, he was detained for having false documents and a month later, he was expelled from Guatemala and dropped off late at night at the El Salvador border (according to the HSCA Report).42 Marcello later told a prison cell mate that he was taken 20 miles into Honduras and unceremoniously dumped on a jungle hilltop with no signs of civilization in sight. He collapsed multiple times as he trudged through the jungle in his suit, even falling down a hill, which resulted in three broken ribs and cuts from sharp thorns.43

By late May of 1961, Marcello was somehow able to re-enter the United States. The circumstances of that journey are unclear. Marcello would later say that he was flown on a Dominican air force jet from Honduras to Miami with the assistance of Senator Russell Long. David Ferrie was also involved in Marcello’s return, according to a US Border Patrol report, but he likely flew Marcello from Florida to New Orleans (not from Honduras to Miami).44

We know that Ferrie was a pilot for Marcello and worked for G. Wray Gill, one of Marcello’s attorneys. As we discussed in previous episodes, Lee Harvey Oswald was in David Ferrie’s Civil Air Patrol Unit as a teen. And, later, in the Summer of 1963, Ferrie was seen with Oswald by multiple witnesses on multiple occasions.45

The deportation saga against Marcello ended when he was acquitted on, of all days, November 22, 1963. Marcello would later serve a brief stint in prison for assaulting an FBI agent, and a longer sentence of seventeen years, starting in 1982, but Marcello was able to get out of prison after one of his charges was thrown out on appeal in 1989.46

CAMTEX

During his six years of incarceration, Marcello befriended another older prisoner named Jack Van Laningham at the Texarkana Federal Correctional Institute. Marcello struggled with basic reading, and would have Van Laningham read him the newspaper everyday.47 When the prison warden noticed that Van Laningham was becoming close with Marcello, he notified the FBI, which led to Agent Thomas Kimmel launching the CAMTEX operation, to see if Marcello was still running his crime family from prison.48 

Agent Kimmel arranged for Van Laningham to become Marcello’s cellmate, and audio surveillance was set up in the cell. After Marcello felt comfortable enough to open up to Van Laningham, he began sharing incriminating secrets about the JFK Assassination, including that he hired two Italians as hitmen who entered the United States through Michigan, just north of Detroit.49 Marcello said the two hitmen then went to his Churchill Farm estates for ten days before going on to Dallas.50 Marcello told Van Laningham, QUOTE “Yeah, I had the son of a bitch killed. I’m glad I did. I’m sorry I couldn’t have done it myself.”51

While the CAMTEX audio recordings remain classified, Van Laningham did pass a polygraph about his claims. Obviously, in the interest of transparency, these recordings need to be released immediately and in full.

Other Alleged Confessions

In Episode 68, we talked about FBI Informant, Eugene de Lappara overhearing three men in a Marcello restaurant discussing the president’s murder in March of 1963. De Laparra said that one of them, who he believed to be David Ferrie, said QUOTE “There is a price on the President’s head and somebody will get Kennedy when he comes down South.”52

There was also another alleged confession by Marcello, this one to Ed Becker. Becker claimed that he met with Marcello in September of 1962 at his Churchill Farms estate. When the topic turned to Bobby Kennedy, Marcello said in Italian QUOTE “Take the stone out of my shoe! Don’t worry about that little Bobby, son of a bitch, he’s going to be taken care of.”53 Becker said that Marcello then referred to President Kennedy as being a dog and the Attorney General as being the dog’s tail, and said QUOTE “the dog will keep biting you if you only cut off it’s tail, but if the dog’s head were cut off, the dog would die.”54

The credibility of Ed Becker is a mixed bag. Mob connected attorney, Sidney Korshak called Becker a QUOTE “no good shakedown artist.” But, what else would a mob attorney call someone who is ratting out their clients? Conversely, the New York Times called Becker QUOTE “the most significant link in the relationship between the crime syndicate, politics, labor, and management.”55 Former FBI agent and chief investigator for Los Angeles said that Becker worked for him and was QUOTE one of the most knowledgeable detail men” in the private investigator business.56 FBI files confirm that Becker was in Louisiana in September of 1962 when he said the meeting took place. Further, Becker knew Marcello through his nephew, Carl Roppolo.57

According to mob lawyer, Frank Ragano’s book, when Santos Trafficante was seriously ill in 1987, he implied that Marcello was the ultimate decider behind the assassination, saying QUOTE “I think Carlos fucked up getting rid of Giovanni, maybe it should have been Bobby.”58

NEXT TIME ON SOLVING JFK: We revisit the life, times, and relationships of Jack Ruby. Did Ruby have mafia ties? And is that the real reason whey he killed Lee Harvey Oswald?

Automated transcript

Machine-generated from the audio and unedited, so names and spellings may be wrong. Tap a timestamp to play from that point.

Speaker 2Thus far in this section on the Mafia, we've looked at the history of American organized crime with the Kennedy Brothers playing an adversarial role in that story, beginning with the McLellan Committee. We heard with the Church Committee had to say when it came to Robert Mayhew and the CIA Mafia plots to kill Fidel Castro. Then we learned that Johnny Roselli was still embedded with the Cuban exiles even after the We've given the spotlight to the most prominent bosses who were most likely to have been involved if there was any mafia involvement in Kennedy's assassination. As we learned in the last episode, Santos Traficante claimed that 15 Cuban exiles were hired by him to be part of a team to kill Fidel Castro. We'll cover Cuban axiles in depth soon, but until then, it's important to remember that there's not necessarily a clear line between the mafia and the Cuban axiles. Many of the axiles were also mob-affiliated.
Speaker 2In this episode, we turn our attention to New Orleans boss Carlos Marcello. Did Marcello have any ties to Lee Harvey Oswald? And what support is there for the idea that Carlos Marcello was the one who ordered the hit on President Kennedy?
Speaker 1In Dallas, Texas, three shots were fired at President Kennedy's motorcade in downtown Dallas. The first reports say that President Kennedy has been seriously wounded by this shooting.
Speaker 0This is Solving JFK.
Speaker 2I'm your host, Matt Crumpton. Calo Guerra Minicor, also known as Carlos Marcelo, was born in French Tunisia and moved with his family to metoreal Louisiana as a baby. As a teen, he was the mastermind of a group of young thugs that carried out robberies in towns surrounding New Orleans. Marcelo received a 14-year prison sentence for those robberies, but only served five years He wasn't out of the slamer long before he was charged with trafficking marijuana and given a long prison sentence of which he served only ten months. When Marcelo got out of prison for the second time, that's when he really started to build his empire. He began to operate a slot machine network with New York boss Frank Costello. Marcelo owned Jefferson Music Company, which dominated the slot machine, pinball, and jukebox trade in New Orleans. He also owned the largest racing wire service in New Orleans. On top of that, Marcelo controlled the two best-known casinos in the Big Easy, including the Beverly Country Club, which brought Marcelo into partnership with Myor Landsky.
Speaker 2By 1963, Carlos Marcello's New Orleans family was bringing in over $1.1 billion per year. And Marcello wasn't just making money, he was also the most respected boss within La Cosa Nostra, according to FBI agent Patrick Collins, who investigated Marcello. Because New Orleans was the oldest Locosa Nostra family, Marcelo could make decisions on his own without going to the commission, even though he usually did. The boss whom Marcelo was closest to was Santa's Traficante. Marcelo told the HSCA that his relationship with Traficante was strictly social, and that he had no ownership in Cuba. However, when Marcelo spoke to the HSCA, he denied ever receiving money from Las Vegas or doing anything illegal for that matter. So we can't necessarily take Marcelo's HSCA testimony to the bank. Given his overlapping interests with Traficante, it wouldn't be surprising if Marcelo was profiting from Cuba somehow.
Speaker 2Either way, Marcelo showed his desire for a Castro-free Cuba by backing Cuban exiles in their fight to house the bearded dictator. Marcelo supported Tony Verona's Cuban Revolutionary Council, which, in New Orleans, was led by David Ferries-Friend, Sergio Arcachis Smith, and, for a period of time, had its offices at 544 Camp Street in the same building as Guy Bannister. Marcello was also a longtime supporter of Lyndon Johnson. As previously noted, Jack Halfen claimed that he funneled at least half a million dollars from Marcello's gambling profits to Lyndon Johnson in the 1950s. In exchange, Johnson always voted against anti-racketeering laws. Health and was sent to prison in 1964 and was later given a full pardon by President Lyndon Johnson in 1966. Many researchers point to links between the uncle of Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Dutt's Marat, and the Marcello Crime family. So what is the evidence linking Marat to Carlos Marcello?
Speaker 2First, Dutch Meret, who married Margaret Oswald's sister Lillian, was, according to the H.S.C.A. quote, associated with organized crime figures in New Orleans, having worked for years in an underworld gambling syndicate affiliated with the Carlos Marcelo Crime Family. The Warren Commission interviewed Meret, but did not ask him what he did for a living. Both John Pick, Oswald's half brother, and Lillian Meret, Duts' wife, told the commission that Duts was in the bookmaking business. Later, Lillian Merett told the HSCA that her husband worked in the gambling business with Sam Sia for years. Merett's children, Marilyn and Jean also confirmed their father's relationship with Sia. Even Margarita Oswald said that Dutch Meret worked with Sia, and that they knew each other for years. Thus, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that Meret was a bookie, and that he worked with Sam Sia. So who exactly was Sam Sia?
Speaker 2According to the HSEA, Sia, quote, was identified by various federal and state authorities as an organized crime leader in New Orleans. The head of the New Orleans Metropolitan Crime Commission, Aaron Cone, said Sia, quote, had the reputation of being very close to Carlos Marcelo. In addition to working regularly with Sia, Meret also managed a boxer named Tony Shombra who went on to become a lieutenant under Sia in the Marcelo Crime family. The HSCA organized crime report also relayed a story about how Margarita's world implied that Dutt's Marat had close proximity to Marcelo when she met an old friend at a dinner party in 1970 in Waco, Texas, an unnamed businessman and his wife were hosting Margarita at their home at the time. They took her to a party where Margarita used a different name. At that party, a man named Sam Termine, who was a former bodyguard and chauffeur for Carlos Marcelo, walked up to Margarit and said, I know you.
Speaker 2She then recognized the man in the two spoke about Termine's friendship with Dut's Marat and his association with Sam Sia. The anonymous businessman later met Carlos Marcelo in New Orleans at the introduction of Termine, and said it was apparent that Termine and Marcelo had a close relationship. When the HSCA asked Margarita's wall about Termine, she said she may have known him, but refused to provide any other information about him. So it's established with certainty that Dutch Marat worked closely as a bookie with Sam Sia who reported to Carlos Marcelo. We also have the link of Boxer Tony Shombra and apparently Margarita's world all confirming that Dutch Marat was connected with these folks and that The next issue here is whether Lee Harvey Oswald was close enough to Dutch Meret for his relationship with Marcelo to matter. Would Oswald have been exposed to any of the trappings of organized crime when he was around Meret?
Speaker 2According to New Orleans Crime Commissioner Aaron Cone, the place where Oswald lived from 1955 to 1956, one 26 exchange place was a hotspot for the New Orleans Mafia. Cone said, quote, exchange alley, specifically that little block that Oswald lived on was literally the hub of some of the most notorious underworld joints in the city. We don't know to what extent a 16-year-old Lee Harvey Oswald was aware of his underworld dominated neighborhood, but it's worth noting that his apartment was physically surrounded by Marcelo affiliated businesses as a teen. Growing up, Oswald regularly spent Friday nights and all day Saturday with the Morets, and would stay with them any time his mom was traveling or was unavailable. Oswald also relied on the Morets again when he came back to New Orleans in the spring of 1963. He stayed with them for a few weeks until his uncle Dutch loomed him the money to move into an apartment on
Speaker 2with Marina and June. In the summer of 1963, while living in New Orleans, Marina and Lee regularly had dinner with the Marettes. After Lee was arrested for getting into a fight while handing out fair play for Cuba committee flyers, he was bailed out of jail by a meal Bruno, a friend of Dutch Marette, and close associate of Carlos Marcelo's number three man, It is therefore clear that Lee Harvey Oswald was close to his mom's sister's family, including his uncle Dutz. In the interest of showing just how close Oswald was with the Marets, and tying everything back to the present time, it's also worth discussing Oswald's trip to Mobile, Alabama with them in July of 1963. At that time, Dutch drove Lee, Marina, and other family members to Mobile to visit Dutch and Lillian Sun and Oswald's cousin, Jean Maret, who was attending Spring Hill College, a Jesuit school there in Mobile. Lee had been invited to give a talk about life in the Soviet Union to a group of students.
Speaker 2While Lee was giving his speech, Marina had to wait outside because women weren't allowed to go inside of the Jesuit house of studies. A Spring Hill student named Robert Fitzpatrick waited outside of the building with Marina where he made conversation with her in Russian, a language that he happened to be studying. Fitzpatrick asked Marina if he wrote to her in Russian, which she correct any mistakes that he made, and she said yes. And we know that he did, in fact, send a letter to Marina because it was included as commission exhibit 76 in the Warren report. As far as we know, Marina never responded to the letter. I only bring this up because Robert Fitzpatrick's son, Michael, went on to become the lead singer of Fitz and the tantrums, a neosol band that recently toured with solving JFK producer Jerry Depisa's band, O-A-R, small world. From what we just covered, we know that Dutt's Marat was associated with Marcelo, and that Oswald was fairly close with Dutt's Marat.
Speaker 2So if Marcelo wanted to get a message to communicate with Oswald, he could have done it through Marat. But is there any evidence that Oswald ever had any direct contact with Carlos Marcelo? While Marcelo was incarcerated in the mid-1980s, he said that he had been introduced to Oswald by a man named Ferris, who was Marcelo's pilot, then landing him likely meant Ferris. He said that the meeting had taken place in Marcelo's brother's restaurant and that he met with Oswald several times before he left New Orleans. Joe Houser was an FBI informant who wore a wire for the feds that captured information leading to Marcelo's eventual incarceration. Houser claimed that Marcelo told him that he and some of his men knew Oswald saying, quote, Aside from this alleged statement, there's no evidence that Oswald actually worked for Marcelo. There's also an allegation from FBI informant Eugene Sumner, who says he was in New Orleans for business in February or March of 1963, and he had dinner at the town and country restaurant, which was owned by Marcelo and operated by his associate Joseph Pareto.
Speaker 2Sumner told the FBI a few days after JFK was killed that he recalled seeing Oswald eating at the restaurant with a blonde haired lady. Sumner saw the restaurant owner who he had been introduced to earlier in the night, quote, Before the FBI report on Sumner's statement went public, informant Joe Houser told the FBI that Marcelo mentioned that quote, the feds came up to the motel asking about Oswald, but my people didn't tell him nothing. Like we never heard of a guy, you know? So we know that Carlos Marcelo was a powerful mob boss in Louisiana, and that Texas was part of his territory. But did Marcelo have any direct control over Dallas? There were two key Dallas underbosses with whom Marcelo spoke regularly on the telephone for many years before and after the JFK assassination. Svello was a narcotics dealer and suspected murderer and also a legitimate business man in the liquor business and importation of Italian foods.
Speaker 2You may remember from episode 76 that, according to H.L. Hunts' right hand man John Kurington, Joe Svello met with Hunt at 6 a.m. at the Hunt estate on the morning that Ruby killed Oswald. Svello was a partner in Marcelo's racing wire service, and leased Marcelo's slot machines to bars and night clubs in Dallas. Svello attended the 1957 Appalachian meeting, along with one of Marcelo's brothers, on Marcelo's behalf. File this under the, maybe it's nothing, maybe it's a big deal category. Shortly after Sevello returned from Appalachian, he was observed having dinner with Dallas police sergeant Patrick Dean, who would go on to be in charge of basement security when Jack Ruby killed Oswald. Joe Campisi and his brother Sam owned the Egyptian lounge restaurant, a notorious mob hangout in Dallas. Sevello also frequented the restaurant according to FBI reports. Campisi had a close relationship with Marcelo as demonstrated by the frequency of phone calls from the Egyptian lounge to Marcelo's businesses in New Orleans.
Speaker 2Kempisi told HSCA investigators that he used to play golf with Marcelo's brothers, and he would send Marcelo 260 pounds of Italian sausage every Christmas. As we'll soon see, Joe Sevello and Joe Kempisi also had a close relationship with Jack Ruby. When Carlos Marcelo appeared before the keyflover committee in 1951, he refused to answer any questions. Apparently, as a result of that hearing, deportation proceedings began against Marcelo in 1953. By 1959, Marcello was still in the United States when he was subpoenaed to testify before the McClellan Committee and the Kennedy brothers once again invoking the Fifth Amendment for every question. At first, Marcello turned to Santos Traficante to get help from Frank Sinatra to ask the Kennedy's to not deport him. But that tactic was unsuccessful. On April 4, 1961, Marcelo went to his regularly scheduled check-in meeting with the INS, where he was arrested and immediately flown to Guatemala because that was the country listed on his false birth certificate.
Speaker 2The IRS then filed an $835,000 lean against Marcelo and his wife. When Marcelo arrived in Guatemala, he was detained for having false documents, and a month later, he was expelled from Guatemala and dropped off late at night at the El Salvador border, according to the HSCA. Marcelo later told a prison cellmate that he was taken 20 miles into Honduras and unceremoniously dumped on a jungle hilltop with no signs of civilization in sight. He collapsed multiple times as he trudged through the jungle and his suit, even falling down a hill which resulted in three broken ribs and cuts from sharp thorns. By late May of 1961, Marcello was somehow able to re-enter the United States. The circumstances of that journey are unclear, but Marcello would later say that he was flown on a Dominican Air Force jet from Honduras to Miami with the assistance of Senator Russell Long. David Ferrie was also involved in Marcelo's return, but he likely flew Marcelo from Florida to New Orleans, not from Honduras to Miami.
Speaker 2We know that Ferry was a pilot for Marcelo, and he also worked for G. Ray Gill, one of Marcelo's attorneys. As we discussed in previous episodes, Lee Harvey Oswald was in David Ferry's civil air patrol unit as a teen. And later, in the summer of 1963, Ferry was seen with Oswald by multiple witnesses on multiple occasions. The deportation saga against Marcelo ended when he was acquitted on of all days, November 22, 1963. Marcelo would later serve a briefstent in prison for assaulting an FBI agent, and a longer sentence of 17 years starting in 1982, but Marcelo was able to get out of prison During his six years of incarceration, Marcelo befriended another older prisoner named Jack Van Laningham at the Texarkana Federal Correctional Institute. Marcelo struggled with basic reading and would have Van Laningham read him the newspaper every day. When the prison warden noticed that man landing him was becoming close with Marcelo, he notified the FBI, which led to Agent Thomas Kimmel launching the Camtex operation, to see if Marcelo was still running his crime family from prison.
Speaker 2Agent Kimmel arranged for Van Lanningham to become Marcelo's cellmate and audio surveillance was set up in the cell. After Marcelo felt comfortable enough to open up to Van Lanningham, he began sharing and criminating secrets about the JFK assassination, including that he hired two Italians as Hitman, who entered the United States through Michigan Marcelo said the two hitmen then went to his church hill farm estates for 10 days before going on to Dallas. Marcelo told Van landing him, quote, yeah I had the son of a bitch killed, I'm glad I did. I'm sorry I couldn't have done it myself. While the Camtex audio recordings remain classified, Van Leningham did pass a polygraph about his claims. Obviously, in the interest of transparency, these audio recordings must be released immediately and in full. In episode 68, we talked about FBI informant Eugene Delapara, overhearing three men in a Marcelo restaurant discussing the president's murder in March of 1963.
Speaker 2Dilapara said that one of them, who he believed to be David Ferry, said, quote, there's a price on the president's head and somebody will get Kennedy when he comes down south. There was also another alleged confession by Marcelo, this one to Ed Becker. Becker claimed that he met Marcelo in September of 1962 at his Churchill Farms estate. When the topic turned to Bobby Kennedy, Marcelo said in Italian, quote, take the stone out of my shoe. Don't worry about that little Bobby's son of a bitch. He's going to be taking care of. Becker said that Marcelo then referred to President Kennedy as being a dog, and the attorney general as being the dog's tail, and said quote. The dog would keep biting you if you cut off his tail, but if the dog's head would cut off, the dog would die. The credibility of Ed Becker is a mixed bag. Mob connected attorney Sidney Corshack called Becker a quote, no good shake down artist.
Speaker 2But then again, what else would a mob attorney call someone whose turning state's evidence on his client? Conversely, the New York Times called Becker quote, the most significant link in the relationship between the crime syndicate, politics, labor, and management. A former FBI agent and chief investigator for Los Angeles, said that Becker worked for him and was, quote, one of the most knowledgeable detail men in the private investigator business. FBI files confirmed that Becker was in Louisiana in September 1962 when he said the meeting took place. According to mob lawyer Frank Regano, when Santos Traficante was seriously ill in 1987, he implied that Marcelo was the ultimate decider behind the assassination, saying QUOTE. I think Carlos fucked up getting rid of Giovanni. Maybe it should have been Bobby. Next time on Solving JFK, we revisit the life, times, and relationships of Jack Ruby.
Speaker 2Did Ruby really have mafia ties and is that the reason why he killed Lee Harvey Oswald? If you heard anything that you believe is out of context or if you have additional information to offer, you can let us know at solving JFK podcast at gmail.com. Please provide citations to the record for any fact that you're relying on. For transcripts, sources, and official podcast merchandise, visit solvingjfkpodcast.com. Thanks for listening. Visit solvingjfkpodcast.com for more information.

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